philj
Junior Member
Posts: 124 
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Post by philj on May 3, 2024 9:34:38 GMT
Anyone received a letter from Griffin Law this morning?
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 10:06:28 GMT
Yes, me - and I'm sure me and you are not the only ones.
DON'T PANIC!
I phoned Griffin Law and spoke to the guy who is handling this, whose name is Mark.
The letter has been sent to ALL shareholders, regardless of whether their shares are paid or unpaid (there is a reason for this).
If your shares are in fact paid, as part of the original issue or subsequently by "donations", such as the extra subs scheme, then send or email copies of the share certificates to Griffin and that will be the end of the matter as far as you as an individual are concerned. If you can't find the share certificates, then you can write to them.
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philj
Junior Member
Posts: 124
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Post by philj on May 3, 2024 10:53:36 GMT
John, I am not paniking! But why are they doing it? Timing at end of season when most will not see each other for a while.
The accounts in the past have always stated that there are no outstanding monies in respect of shares issued.
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 11:08:50 GMT
Phil, I'll send you a PM later today.
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Dodger
Junior Member
Posts: 167
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Post by Dodger on May 3, 2024 11:13:40 GMT
Possibly a ploy to "persuade" some of the shareholders who hold just a handful of shares to forfeit them, or perhaps a fishing exercise to raise some additional funds to finance the high quality playing squad we are expecting to see next season
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 11:27:20 GMT
The tone of the letter is very poor. For those of us with a reasonable number of shares the £££ involved would have been substantial.
I feel a note to the Chairman coming on.
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 11:29:05 GMT
Considering the issuing of share certificates for Extra Subs has been poor to non existent under the previous regime then this is not helping.
The club have a better record of my shareholding due to the poor issue of certificates (my recent chase up of the continuation of the Extra Subs topic confirmed this).
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 12:02:33 GMT
Dunc, I was (pleasantly) surprised to find that I do have certificates for all of my shares - the most recent certificate is dated April 2023 and is the one that Jim Pellatt sent after we chased him up; I think you got one at the same time.
The others are spread over time, the oldest being from 2003.
As for the tone of the letter, agreed, it is a bit terse. It has been sent to all shareholders without any prior attempt to establish whether their shares are paid or unpaid. If your shares are paid, then ultimately you have nothing to worry about - you just need to contact Griffin Law. Of course, it helps if you can provide copies of share certificates.
Their email address is justice@griffin.law
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Post by simondo on May 3, 2024 12:31:31 GMT
Perhaps I am fortunate enough to at least have a signed copy of my share certificate. Mr Pellatt did the honours. I assume the club has the original (cert no:353).
So as suggested I will scan the cert and send off.
In addition, I have been paying into the club every month for many years now by standing order, so I feel more than qualified as a shareholder.
Very bizarre letter though.
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fang
Junior Member
Posts: 214 
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Post by fang on May 3, 2024 12:39:38 GMT
I've received a letter too.
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 12:53:21 GMT
In addition, I have been paying into the club every month for many years now by standing order, so I feel more than qualified as a shareholder. Same here. I recently requested a record of this from the club and they had full details which was a relief. |
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 12:54:15 GMT
I've received a letter too. All shareholders have been sent basically the same letter. If you've got certificates for your shares then send copies either by letter or email to Griffin Law and that should be the end of it as far as you are concerned. If you haven't got certificates, contact them anyway to tell them that your shares are paid. Their email address is justice@griffin.law |
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 13:31:46 GMT
I see this as legal laziness. Can't be bothered to look through a list of who, or who hasn't paid, so send a threatening letter to everyone.
Add to this I'm sure this counts as a couple of hours lawyer time, & I bet their cost rate is >£100 / hour = £££
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philj
Junior Member
Posts: 124
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Post by philj on May 3, 2024 14:09:08 GMT
Clumsey letter, PR gaffe by the club. Chairman should have issued a club statement to explain.
When I phoned Griffin Law they gave me the date I paid for my shares!! Information obtained from the share register.
So the purpose of this exercise........? Be surprised if they really want to tell us.
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Post by ironmaiden99 on May 3, 2024 14:36:05 GMT
John and Phil thanks for all the work on this.
I have received my letter and I find it an insult to all those who have purchased shares in the club in good faith.
They may have explained to you what it means but it does not say that in the letter.
How many shareholders read the forum how many will be upset and stressed by the tone of this demand!
I hope Jim will reply to this thread asap. The Chairman should issue a formal statement to all shareholders.
It is not clear what we need to do .
A line in the letter says ` By the due date send a cheque in payment and the original share certificate covering these shares.
Should that not be OR not AND
The letter implies if you don't pay you will be charged interest and later it says you will be liable to lose your shares .
Sorry none of this makes sense.
Did you the club proof read this ?
What is the club trying to achieve? Other than upsetting the shareholders.
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 15:28:44 GMT
I see this as legal laziness. Can't be bothered to look through a list of who, or who hasn't paid, so send a threatening letter to everyone. Add to this I'm sure this counts as a couple of hours lawyer time, & I bet their cost rate is >£100 / hour = £££ It's not laziness, it's process. Although the letter is slightly alarming, especially when you are not expecting it, if your shares are paid then you have nothing to worry about, just the inconvenience of contacting them to tell them that your shares are paid and taking/sending copies if you can. If you can't, then, as you say, they have a list. Your bet is very safe: if you multiplied it by three it would still be safe. |
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Post by invictasaint on May 3, 2024 15:56:29 GMT
What happens if people just do nothing?
What if they were issued in lieu of works done or as a bonus.
Shouldn’t the onus be on them to show one hasn’t paid?
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Post by tigerstripe on May 3, 2024 17:17:45 GMT
There's now a statement on the website. But I don't think it really sheds much light,
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 17:38:19 GMT
Those are good questions, Geoff, and it would probably need a lawyer to answer them, but here's my threepenny-worth: "What happens if people just do nothing?" If you've got proof of payment signed by a representative of the company, i.e. share certificates, then I don't think it's in anyone's interest to do nothing. If you send this to the lawyers they will check it against the company's records and, assuming they line up, then that should be that. "What if they were issued in lieu of works done or as a bonus." I think that this is probably the most pertinent issue. "Paid shares" don't have to be paid for in cash, they can be allocated for other forms of consideration, such as property, work done, services rendered, even nebulous things like "know-how", although all these things are meant to pass some kind of "value" test. I couldn't find anything specific about shares issued to directors by those same directors  . I guess if the law was simpler, we wouldn't need lawyers and that, if we didn't have lawyers, the law would be simpler... "Shouldn’t the onus be on them to show one hasn’t paid?" I honestly don't have a clue. If you, as an individual, want to secure a bank loan on the basis of shares you hold in a company, then the onus is on you to prove that you own the shares, and the usual proof accepted is share certificates. But if you don't have them (maybe because you just can't find them) I don't know what the situation is. Presumably the other evidence available is the companies record of shares issued, although when I spoke to Griffin Law this morning, they said that one of the reasons for sending the letters to all shareholders was that the company's records could not be relied on to be completely accurate. Catch 22? I agree with what people have said above about this being an incredibly bad bit of P.R. from the club, but maybe someone there thinks the end, whatever it is, justifies the means? |
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 17:48:30 GMT
Add to this I'm sure this counts as a couple of hours lawyer time, & I bet their cost rate is >£100 / hour = £££ From the club statement: "This initiative, funded by the FIFC directors, incurs no cost to Folkestone Invicta." Even more odd. |
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 17:56:42 GMT
There's now a statement on the website. But I don't think it really sheds much light, totally unimpressed: 1. This statement should have been issued before these letters were issued, not after. Maybe that was the original intention, since it says that shareholders "will receive communications" from Griffin Law, when in fact we already have. 2. It talks about "rectifying a situation", but doesn't say what that situation is, which makes that statement more or less meaningless. 3. It talks about "concerns raised by our valued fans"; I don't know whether I'm valued or not, but I do know that I haven't raised any concerns and I don't know anybody else who has, so this just invites speculation. One thing it could usefully have said, as could the letter from Griffin Law (the wording of which would have been approved by our board of directors, because that is the law), is that, legally, a call can only be made on unpaid shares, including the unpaid part of partially paid shares. That would have set a lot of minds at rest. |
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 17:59:29 GMT
Add to this I'm sure this counts as a couple of hours lawyer time, & I bet their cost rate is >£100 / hour = £££ From the club statement: "This initiative, funded by the FIFC directors, incurs no cost to Folkestone Invicta." Even more odd. The way that I read that is that the lawyers are being paid out of the directors' pockets, not out of club funds. Seems wholly appropriate... |
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Post by finbarr_in_z on May 3, 2024 18:23:38 GMT
From the club statement: "This initiative, funded by the FIFC directors, incurs no cost to Folkestone Invicta." Even more odd. The way that I read that is that the lawyers are being paid out of the directors' pockets, not out of club funds. Seems wholly appropriate... That's how I read it. But i thought issues relating to the club ownership, ie shareholding, would have to come from said owned club. Whatever, it's still all a bit of a faux pas. |
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Post by colash on May 3, 2024 18:37:26 GMT
When Covid cut the 2020 season short. All lot of the season ticket holder took a share or two instead of a refund. Hope the paperwork for this is all above board.
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 18:52:09 GMT
You're right, Colin, I'd forgotten that. Didn't we have to pick an option from a list on the web site? I must have chosen the "keep the money anyway" option, because I don't have any shares issued at around that time.
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Post by invictasaint on May 3, 2024 19:16:35 GMT
Sacre bleu! I’ll call Poirot, he’ll get to ze bottom of Zis. Too much smoke and mirrors for me.
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 19:36:53 GMT
i thought issues relating to the club ownership, ie shareholding, would have to come from said owned club. It has come from the club, i.e. the board of directors who are appointed by shareholders (I know...), or appointed by the board of directors, to run the club as a business. Every aspect of the call comes from the club, i.e. the board of directors, who also will have agreed the wording of the call letter. The lawyers (Griffin Law) are acting on the club's behalf in notifying shareholders of the call and administering it. |
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Post by stumpy on May 3, 2024 19:41:21 GMT
Sacre bleu! I’ll call Poirot, he’ll get to ze bottom of Zis. Too much smoke and mirrors for me. Well, smoke does get in your eyes, but so can other stuff if you look up at the wrong moment. |
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Post by tigerstripe on May 4, 2024 6:01:01 GMT
I don't doubt there's a good reason behind all this but it seems to me that it would have already been in the pipeline at the time of the recent shareholders AGM. That would have been a good time to explain what was coming, rather than take us by surprise.
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Post by stumpy on May 4, 2024 9:28:51 GMT
I don't doubt there's a good reason behind all this A reason anyway. As Hamlet says, "There's nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so." |
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. I guess if the law was simpler, we wouldn't need lawyers and that, if we didn't have lawyers, the law would be simpler...
