|
Post by reddevil on Feb 10, 2022 14:31:30 GMT
Not wanting to add fuel to the fire ,my Bovril was weak on Tuesday night 🤬 come on FIFC sort it out 🤣
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 10, 2022 14:58:39 GMT
Not wanting to add fuel to the fire ,my Bovril was weak on Tuesday night 🤬 come on FIFC sort it out 🤣 I'm not having this kind of negativity. One more post like this and you're barred.
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 10, 2022 15:02:16 GMT
I don't need to reread any threads, I remember it all, from reading it myself and from other people talking to me about it. You can say this place isn't negative all you want but it's not just me. even in my time away I was send screenshots of daft moans and whinges on here. I was told it was negative before I ever used it, I've found it to be nothing but negative since. Plenty of supporters who don't post but browse (or used to browse) think so and even some players do too. I'd advise them never to read it but obviously some will and you can say "nobody is criticising any of the players" if you like but clearly some don't think that's the case.OK, so you don't need to read the forum to know that it's negative, you just know it is, because it always has been and you were sent a few examples of it. Like I said to Ade when he described the forum as "toxic", give us an example of what you mean and then we'll know what the problem is. Joking aside (and I do actually struggle to take this "negativity" whinge seriously), there have been times in the past when this forum was toxic as hell, beyond toxic even, but they were a few years ago now. I honestly don't think there's been anything remotely toxic or even negative this season. So maybe we're defining the word differently. Similar with the alleged criticism of players - you'll have to give us an example. As I've said before, the only significant and negative posts I've seen on here this season about players were both posted by you, the entirely negative post about Tyler Sterling, which you at least hold your hands up to, and the post about Finn which, when people rightly had a go at you for it, you tried to claim was misintepreted. But no, if we lose on Saturday's it's unlikely the system will change, maybe the personnel will. There's only so many times it can be said that this squad isn't set up to play 3 at the back. We only have one player that can play wingback on either side and we saw what happens when one gets injured already. Theres nowhere for either Luke or Kieron in that system either. With the current system everybody has a place, we can play with our midfield set up either with a 10 or a 6, can play wingers on either side. Current forum flavour of the month Jordan Wright can play in 4 different positions in it, he played right wing twice in the last few weeks, albeit to greater effect at Chichester than against VCDI know the system is unlikely to change - doesn't mean that we should slavishly stick to 4-3-3 all the time, especially in games where it's not working. We've done goals for - what about goals against? In the first 13 games we kept 5 clean sheets and in the other 8 games only let in more than 1 goal 3 times (1 X 2, 1 X 3 and the infamous 5 against Carshalton, which as I keep saying, I see as a one-off that had everything to do with being knackered. In the last 14 games, we have we again have 5 clean sheets (all but one at home and all but one against teams in the bottom half of the table), but in the other 9 games we have conceded 18 (3 x 3, 3 x 2 and 3 x 1) - which kind of suggests that we were significantly more secure at the back before, doesn't it? Again, nobody was complaining when we put 7 past Potters Bar, but people need to accept that other teams can effect the game too, not everything is about what we do right or wrong. We are coming up against good teams who are fighting for their lives and they aren't just going to open up and let us play the way we want to.As I've already said, of course nobody is going to complain when we've just won a match 7-0. Of course other teams aren't going to roll over and let us win - but that was the same for the earlier games; the oppo may raise their games against us and clearly, at Cheriton Road, a lot of them are playing for a draw pretty much from kick-off, but our level has dropped a bit too. that's before you get to the way the pitches or the weather affect games at this time of year. Our pitch isn't great at the moment, it hasn't been since Bishops Stortford unfortunately. not that I think we would have won but the wind on Saturday killed the last 10 minutes. Agreed the pitch isn't at its best right now and that probably works against us and for the oppo - but it's not something we can hide behind. The wind is the wind - we usually handle it better than the oppo because we're used to it. Mind you, Carshalton did pull the tactical masterstroke of making us kick the other way - bastards. nobody has suggested everything is perfect, but if you were an outsider looking in you'd think everything was going to ****. Take a look at Kingstonian's form and it might make you feel a bit better about ours I don't think yet that its got beyond a slight concern - it's nowhere near despondency yet. I'm not sure there's any such thing as a completely upbeat, happy-clappy fans forum anywhere; that's the social meadia team's job
|
|
xjr
Junior Member
Posts: 436
|
Post by xjr on Feb 10, 2022 16:13:41 GMT
Not wanting to add fuel to the fire ,my Bovril was weak on Tuesday night 🤬 come on FIFC sort it out 🤣 I'm not having this kind of negativity. One more post like this and you're barred. If you go back to the beginning of the season at home our Bovril has been weak 46% of the time, so it has been strong 54% of the time. You cannot argue with the facts. Our Bovril is strong most of the time and I am sure coming into the season you would have taken that.
|
|
|
Post by finbarr_in_z on Feb 10, 2022 17:09:49 GMT
I'm not having this kind of negativity. One more post like this and you're barred. If you go back to the beginning of the season at home our Bovril has been weak 46% of the time, so it has been strong 54% of the time. You cannot argue with the facts. Our Bovril is strong most of the time and I am sure coming into the season you would have taken that. The manager likes the Bovril but will only drink it in the last 3 minutes of every game. At least the Bovril is warm(ing the bench).
|
|
|
Post by invictasaint on Feb 10, 2022 17:46:07 GMT
Bovril !!, they'll be serving pie, mash and whippets next.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 20:15:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 10, 2022 20:46:44 GMT
The last time I wanted a Bovril, they didn't have any; so I said I'd make do with Oxo instead, but they were out of stock.
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 10, 2022 20:54:32 GMT
Re the highlights, 3 things. 1. Was their number 9 pleased with his goal, or what? 2. I didn't realise quite how close they came to a third goal. 3. Thanks Anthony - I realise you must have spent hours on them, just putting in the second scorer's name. (We were joking about that before the game, that he never gets a yellow card: "Name?"... a minute later... "OK, that's your last warning."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 21:07:02 GMT
I’ve been told the only reason his full name was on the team sheet was to make the PA have to read it out. Personally I can’t shorten it without knowing how he’d like it shortened and that’s why the highlights took 2 days
|
|
|
Post by kentjambo on Feb 10, 2022 21:41:36 GMT
What happened to my earlier post? I'm guessing because I commented on our forum feuher......😡
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 21:59:27 GMT
No, I don't need to REread old posts and threads. I don't want to pick on individuals as these are just examples off the top of my head but: I remember that hours after the we were the first team to win at Enfield in a couple of years a thread was started to moan about how small the squad is, for example. I remember somebody who wasn't at Lewes moaning about the long ball football despite us not going long that day. Its a running joke regarding new signings needing a cushion for the bench (I've no issue with that) yet when we signed Luke and he started there was a moan that he had immediately replace Kieron. People call for new signings (again no issue, although I do think people need to realise its not just a case of clicking your fingers and players appear) and then when we do get a player in it's often met by complaints that he's not the right player ("another forward? we need defenders!" being a usual one). Take a recent comment complaining that we signed a winger instead of signing a left back and pushing Alfie further forward. that winger has been our best players since arriving, FWIW.
People all have differing opinions and are entitled to, it just comes across that some only ever have negative opinions. Personally my only real issue is when people claim something they see is "obvious" or that "we can all see it" or something of that ilk. Hence why I questioned you on why it was obvious Jordan should have replaced Heardy. I get that he's now stepped into Finn's shoes as the new forum favourite who is so badly mistreated by a horrible manager but as I said previously: he shows no signed of being unhappy, far from it, and if Cugs is so nasty to him why would he have come back? I'd doubt there's any team in our league with as many players who have gone away and come back than we have, that doesn't happen if the manager is as awful as some on here seem to think. I'd go as far to suggest that if he left in the summer the club would see it's biggest turnover of players for many years.
Running the numbers our goals against for either system would see us concede 5.5 goals more over a 42 game season now than before. Personally I wouldn't say that is "significant".
I wouldn't expect people to complain after Potter Bar, the point is the football is supposedly bad and we aren't scoring yet we hit them for 7 and it feels as if people are waiting for games we struggling to score prove their point.
As it is, we did change the system at Chichester and ended up changing back to 4-3-3 because the 3-5-2 wasn't working and we then blew them away in the second half.
|
|
|
Post by finbarr_in_z on Feb 10, 2022 23:20:52 GMT
When is Johan coming back then? Its obvious that he's brilliant - we can all see it...
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 10, 2022 23:40:13 GMT
What happened to my earlier post? I'm guessing because I commented on our forum feuher......😡 Not guilty, never saw it, wouldn't have deleted it anyway. According to the secret bits that only the high ranking gestapo can look at, you haven't posted anything in this thread. So put it in again if you can remember what it said and can be bothered. By the way, I'm not the Fuhrer - that's Colin Ashman; I'm more Hermann Goring. Oh, and Obertan is Heinrich Himmler. OK, that's a lie, because he's not a party member - but he does look a a bit like him in the right light. Check it out
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 1:02:52 GMT
I wish I had that much hair
|
|
|
Post by colash on Feb 11, 2022 7:58:22 GMT
I have not deleted anything.
|
|
damo
Junior Member
Posts: 208
|
Post by damo on Feb 11, 2022 10:46:10 GMT
I do love watching the highlights great quality filming but be nice also to see there replay of goals
|
|
|
Post by gerryhan on Feb 11, 2022 20:35:10 GMT
I was at that Chichester game. We started with wing-backs but Alfie dropped deeper to watch their dangerous number ten. Jordan continued wide right midfield so we turned into a kind of 4-4-2. As Alfie pushes on at every opportunity we ended up with two attacking wide players, effectively. Brilliant that night in the second half.
Anthony, why can't you accept that some of us do not enjoy watching the drift back to excessive use of the long ball. As for Jordan, he brought some finesse to that right flank either in front of JV or not. This is why some people would like him in the team. Because he is a good footballer.
Supporters pay their money to be entertained, not to necessarily win all the time. I love it when we win. I love it even more, when we win stylishly ( which this squad is capable of! )
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 11, 2022 23:57:01 GMT
This is getting tedious; although Simondo says it's entertaining, I know I'm starting to get bored - but it would be wrong to let what you've written here go uncommented. I remember that hours after the we were the first team to win at Enfield in a couple of years a thread was started to moan about how small the squad is, for example. You know some of the people posting on that thread, there are others you probably don't know. They are not by any means serial whingers - they are long standing fans who want the club to prosper. I've just re-read that thread and there isn't a single post that isn't fair comment and a lot of it still applies, because the squad is still too small. Serious question - do you think we have adequate cover in defence? (The Enfield result was irrelevant - the comments were actually triggered, as far as I can see, by the fact that Finn was getting towards the end of his month at Hastings.) I remember somebody who wasn't at Lewes moaning about the long ball football despite us not going long that day. That will be me and/or Biffo; we were moaning about a general drift back to the long ball game. The reason it came up there is because the people who went to the game were commenting on us playing too much long ball in that game - so perhaps they were watching a different game from you? Its a running joke regarding new signings needing a cushion for the bench (I've no issue with that) yet when we signed Luke and he started there was a moan that he had immediately replace Kieron.You're talking about something Gerry posted and completely misrepresenting it. What Gerry said was that he was disappointed because he was hoping that signing Luke might lead to some kind of change in our tactical approach, but he had simply been used as a like for like replacement for Kieron, and we had remained as lop-sided as before. People call for new signings (again no issue, although I do think people need to realise its not just a case of clicking your fingers and players appear) and then when we do get a player in it's often met by complaints that he's not the right player ("another forward? we need defenders!" being a usual one). It's the usual one because it's true. Take a recent comment complaining that we signed a winger instead of signing a left back and pushing Alfie further forward. that winger has been our best players since arriving.
He has played well, but that doesn't change the fact that we are not getting the most out of Alfie. Quite honestly, I think it would be better if Luke played on the right, might balance things a bit. People all have differing opinions and are entitled to, it just comes across that some only ever have negative opinions. Your definition of "negative" seems to equate with not accepting that what we are currently getting is the best that we can do and that it's wrong to talk about ways we could improve. I don't think that there are many people at all who post solely negatively on the forum - I can't think of any off the top of my head. There are some people who go to games who are pretty much 100% negative, but they don't post on the forum, they just bend ears around the ground (you must hear some of them from your watch-tower). Personally my only real issue is when people claim something they see is "obvious" or that "we can all see it" or something of that ilk. Hence why I questioned you on why it was obvious Jordan should have replaced Heardy. I get that he's now stepped into Finn's shoes as the new forum favourite who is so badly mistreated by a horrible manager but as I said previously: he shows no signed of being unhappy, far from it, and if Cugs is so nasty to him why would he have come back? I'd doubt there's any team in our league with as many players who have gone away and come back than we have, that doesn't happen if the manager is as awful as some on here seem to think. There are a lot of fans who want Jordan in the team not because he's the flavour of the month but because he is a very good player and would give us better overall balance. As for how Jordan was treated in the past (were you a regular fan back then?) it's not surprising he went elsewhere. I somehow doubt if he's quite as happy sitting out games on the bench as you reckon he is. I'd go as far to suggest that if he left in the summer the club would see it's biggest turnover of players for many years. Of course that's true - but it has to happen sometime. Not worth us speculating on, but it would be nice to know what kind of succession plan the club is working on. Running the numbers our goals against for either system would see us concede 5.5 goals more over a 42 game season now than before. Personally I wouldn't say that is "significant". I wouldn't expect people to complain after Potter Bar, the point is the football is supposedly bad and we aren't scoring yet we hit them for 7 and it feels as if people are waiting for games we struggling to score prove their point. As it is, we did change the system at Chichester and ended up changing back to 4-3-3 because the 3-5-2 wasn't working and we then blew them away in the second half.
Why do you insist on burying your head in the sand about the fact that we are not playing as well as we were earlier in the season. As for the stats - for my sins, I spent the last ten years or so of my working life as a data analyst; statistical analysis is one of the things I had to do on a regular basis - I even had to pass an exam in the bloody thing. the Carshalton result is, in stats terms, an outlier and needs to be excluded so that it doesn't skew the figures; that's not cheating, it's standard stats analysis practice. Without it, our goals conceded per game up until the system change was 0.833; after the system change it's 1.286; that's a difference of 19 goals in a season - I'd call that significant. But it's not the goals for and against that is especially important, it's the points and the fact that we are tending at the moment to lose out in the head to heads against the better teams. These are our records up to and including the 0-5 at Carshalton compared with those after, split between games against teams in the top and bottom halves of the table: TOP HALF "old " P-7, W-3, D-3, L-1, F-12, A-9, Pts-12, GD +3 (this includes the 0-5 at Carshalton) TOP HALF "new" P-6, W-1, D-2, L-3, F-6, A-12, Pts-5, GD -6 BOTTOM HALF "old" P-6, W-4, D-2, L-0, F-14, A-6, Pts-14, GD +8 BOTTOM HALF "new" P-8, W-6, D-2, L-0, F-30, A-6, Pts-20, GD +24 So, while we still seem to have little trouble with the weaker opposition, we are undeniably struggling compared with before against the better teams. In cricketing terms, we're beginning to look a bit like a flat-track bully. System or tiredness? To be honest, I think it's a bit of both, but the system is the only one we can do anything about - in theory at least, I agree with you that it's easier said than done with the current make up of the squad. At the end of the day, I'm similar to Gerry - I want to enjoy the football we play; it's not the end of the world if we don't go up, although missing out on the play-offs would be a real let-down after such a good start to the season and the gung-ho statements that went with it. But, right now, we seem to be a bit on the slide and the football we're playing isn't all that great. It would be a crying shame if the season went flat, but it's beginning to feel that it might - there were a lot of fed up fans during and after the Bowers and Pittsea game. All we can hope is that Cugs and everyone else sees it the same way and are looking hard at how to get us back on track; pretending that things are fine isn't going to help at all. (I realise that amateur punditry isn't either ) Shall we pack this up soon?
|
|
|
Post by number5 on Feb 12, 2022 9:07:39 GMT
Here’s an idea. Why don’t you both meet up in Stripes one time and have a debate. Tickets could be sold on the proviso that those in attendance keep their thoughts to themselves otherwise that would be unfair. It could be fun. What do you think?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 10:27:27 GMT
See the issue is that while all individual posts can be argued over it's that they all add to an atmosphere of negativity. I don't believe, bar a few exceptions, that people on here are generally happier when Invicta lose just because it means they can claim to be proven correct or they can have a good moan but that it how it comes across. And yes, you are correct that there can be negativity on the terraces or elsewhere, this forum does seem to revel in it. I doubt all of those who contributed to an early negative atmosphere on Tuesday night use this forum but id say the same to them even more so than I will say so here: that wasn't helpful. JV alluded to it post-match and the lads could have probably used more support to dig them through a tough spell. I get the impression there is an ingrained culture among the support of a fear of failure, people always expecting things to go wrong rather than the focus being on what is going right. Maybe that's down to previous playoff failures or something, I don't know.
I was going to write "nobody is trying to claim that everything is fine" but in a sense things are "fine" obviously they can be better, and nobody is trying to claim everything is perfect. But as I saying with somebody recently: people want youngsters to get more game time but they won't be happy if we lose. We have to play winning football and we also have to play entertaining football. People want a stronger squad but we also can't overspend or have more players than we can actually get into a Matchday squad. They're the sort of balances that have to be made unless you're a club with money coming out your backside. Worthing for example haven't had the cup runs in the last few years that you'd expect from a club going as well in the league as they are and I'd attribute that, in part at least, to their burning desire for promotion above all else, though I may be wrong.
I never suggested Jordan was happy sitting on the bench, but I do speak to him every Matchday and don't ever get the impression he's crying about how badly treated he is as some on here want to believe. I've seen players who generally were unhappy not starting and they weren't good to have around the dressing room and didn't last. none of them have gone on to better things. Jordan does appear content as a squad player at Invicta and as I've said: if he was so badly treated before why would he come back? He may well decide in the summer he'd rather go elsewhere for first team football but I don't think he will. It does appear he is the recent flavour of the month however just because he appears to have replaced Finn as the player who should be starting games and is being badly treated. it appears there is always one. if only we could start with 12. before Jordan it was Finn, before him Tyler, before him Johan, etc.
I think your comments about Luke prove my point. Firstly he hasn't just come in as a left winger, he's played on both sides. he certainly wasn't on the left when he crossed for Jordan on Tuesday or when he cut in and forced a cross/shot in off the keeper at potters Bar. and that is something you don't get with Kieron who only plays on the left. if you go back and watch Luke's interview after potters bar we spoke about the versatility of the front 3 which previously was just Ade and Dave swapping occasionally but is now Luke and Ade swapping sides and Dave occasionally popping up on the right where he can cut inside. As I say, people want additions but any time we get one it's always laced with reasons why that isn't the right player. Isthmian Premier Division players don't grow on trees and East Kent isn't full of them looking for a club. Theres a reason players like Aaron Simpson and Alexis Andre were without a club when we brought them in and those same reasons mean they're no longer with us. You say we aren't getting the most out of Alfie but I can't agree. Left back is the position that should have National League sides knocking down the door to give us money for him. and that's not to denigrate what he offers as a forward. He is the bast full back in the league but I don't think he would be the best forward, the quality of them is very high.
Now it is interesting to me that the original issue was that we scored more goals before but as that has been proven untrue we are now talking about defence. You can't just write off Carshalton because you don't like it: you want to talk about the system and that was a huge reason we got hammered that night. Despite your claims that the manager "moved to his preferred 4-3-3 at the first change" that wa the third game we tries to shoehorn Kieron in as a wingback and finally gave up trying it. as above, we have tried again since and binned it off. My head I far from buried in the sand, but im aware there are many more factors as to why we may not be playing as well as earlier in the season than just the formation as so many want to fixate on.
|
|
|
Post by gerryhan on Feb 12, 2022 10:49:39 GMT
FfS. We just want to watch the kind of attractive football we were playing earlier in the season.
|
|
|
Post by thelawman on Feb 12, 2022 12:31:04 GMT
And i thought Warand Peace was supposed to be boring you two need a thread to yourselfs so we can start living again..
|
|
|
Post by thelawman on Feb 12, 2022 12:31:37 GMT
Warand Peace 🤦♂️
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 12, 2022 12:33:44 GMT
Here’s an idea. Why don’t you both meet up in Stripes one time and have a debate. Tickets could be sold on the proviso that those in attendance keep their thoughts to themselves otherwise that would be unfair. It could be fun. What do you think? Only if I'm on free beer. It wouldn't be my idea of fun.
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 12, 2022 12:40:57 GMT
And i thought Warand Peace was supposed to be boring you two need a thread to yourselfs so we can start living again.. I agree, and I've tried a couple of times to wind it down - but then there's another reply that is very hard to let go, especially when it misrepresents things. There's two ways I can stop it, but one of them goes against my principles - so I'll just have to stop replying - even if it's hard not to come back at Anthony's latest load of nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by colash on Feb 12, 2022 18:52:47 GMT
If you want me to lock it I can but it will just carry on on another thread.
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 12, 2022 19:47:46 GMT
If you want me to lock it I can but it will just carry on on another thread. Just let it fizzle out - since it's my turn, I just won't take it and that should put an end to it. I'd better not post anything on the Hornchurch thread...
|
|
|
Post by kentjambo on Feb 12, 2022 20:54:24 GMT
Let it fizzle out but I want the last word....
|
|
|
Post by stumpy on Feb 12, 2022 21:28:59 GMT
Let it fizzle out but I want the last word....
|
|