Kingstonian game

[gazza41]

Mar 10, 2024 3:58:48 GMT steveblake said:

Additionally, regarding the pitch, we could do with narrowing and shortening it even further, we get out played at home every game because the opposition (even yesterday, marginally) are better and quicker on the ball and we win very few 2nd balls because we are often on the back foot and not moving forward onto the loose balls that drop in the middle, we could do with giving the opposition minimal space in which to play.

Good point but hopefully we decide to get in wing backs or out and out wide players to put the ball in for Derry. Kedman showed glimpses but seemed to come narrow rather than go on the outside.

[folkestoneclaret]

Here I go again. The future of football at this level lies in 3G/4G. That was going to cost half a million when I tried to drive it 10-15 years ago. I guess now it will be closer to £700K - half for the groundwork, half for the surface. I wanted to raise appreciably more than that to reshape the whole ground including use of the tennis courts for a split-level facility, inside "arena" for community football with a stand and repositioned Stripes on top. Wider thinking would have shifted the structurally-compromised indoor bowls arena to a new build on a different site on the Polo Ground releasing the road frontage (and the abandoned outdoor bowls space) to the Council for redevelopment (as per Sydney De Haan's original ideas to develop a hotel and more recent thinking to use some of that space could be leased to Morrisons as a fuel and recharging station). And still some dedicated parking without which a "New Stripes" would be unviable. It was all pictured in the attachment.

It seemed a reasonable assumption then that despite his bitterness towards the football club, Roger de Haan would engage in helping bowls and tennis in further developing Three Hills, leaving football unhindered to develop the community interest for the No 1 sport that he should have been most concerned about in championing community facilities.

There is still a business case but it has to be based on sustainability. The representative side must be self sustaining and find its own level - pumping money in at director or sponsorship level is all very well but it isn't sustainable - see Billericay and dozens of other examples. The business case _must_ be founded on community football. So some form of Trust administration needs to be overarching to ring-fence finances of FIFC with the wider facility then commanding and controlling the overall budget.

Received wisdom 12 years ago was that FIFA guidelines would allow 50hrs a week of community football on a 3G stadium pitch; and obviously far more than that in a 24/7 indoor facility. Add potential revenue from hospitality and a function suite and you have a viable business proposition which includes the necessary provision for maintenance and a sinking fund for periodic surface renewal. The Council might not be able to provide capital but their Jeremy Chambers was well into this because it would realise additional revenue and the capital potential of the road frontage. And then there is the FA, lottery etc to engage in any viable project like this.

I already copied this pre-Christmas to the new Chairman and we'll see if anything develops.

UTS!

Lynn

Attachments:

Visio-Invicta Plan i 4.pdf (64.13 KB)

[thelawman]

Going back to the live commentary does anyone know how many were listening,I believe it comes up while it was live perhaps Ade can enlighten us..

[stumpy]

Mar 10, 2024 3:50:27 GMT steveblake said:

Quite possibly the actual worst game of football I have ever paid to watch.
In short (or long, or diagonal, or….. you get the gist) we can’t string 2 passes together, agreed the pitch didn’t help but…..
3 is good, keeper good, Callum ok, 9, 11, 15 & 10 alright.
Our lack of pace and astute covering full backs is a constant worry,
8 is industrious but doesn’t do much with the ball, 7 had a shocker but seen him play better, 6 who went off is too slow and easily turned, there’s not much quality and even less confidence throughout the team.
Sombre and subdued probably sums up the atmosphere….. we look a long way from a cohesive team and a side that doesn’t look like they could concede every time the opposition breaks forward.
Can only hope for better next Saturday, we will need to be.

You obviously didn't go to the Potters Bar game a couple of weeks ago

As for the rest, you've hit a lot of nails squarely on the head.

We are woefully short of pace just about everywhere and that, combined with our often poor defensive shape is a big reason for us being too easy to score against and also struggling to create a lot of chances.

As for the players. I like Sanogo (11), a proper footballer; ditto Fregene (15).
As for the wing/full backs, Byron (12) and Kedman (3) are both better going forward than defending, Sessegon (2) hasn't impressed me at all, and he doesn't get forward, which makes our attack lop-sided.
Centre backs: Callum and Goodman (6), especially Goodman, are both slow and too easy for quick forwards to beat.
Midfield, I like Allsopp (8), and his dead ball kicks are a big asset, he does drift in and out of games though; Rance (7) has been pretty dire and, considering the level he usually plays at, you wonder about his effort/application, because you would never suspect that he's at a good National League North club from what he's shown for us. Sanogo, as I've said, is very good.
Up front, we know what we get with Dave Smith - he takes chances, we just need to create more of them for him; Tom Derry, I'm not at all convinced; he's good in the air, but has no pace and does precious little ball at feet - when have we ever seen him take the ball past a defender? He is only worth a place in the team if we regularly put good crosses into the box, and we don't.

Go into next season with the same manager, the same squad and the same approach and I think we will endure another season of woe - and it has been woeful this season, the worst I have endured in the 25 years I've been watching Invicta.

[stumpy]

Mar 10, 2024 6:22:28 GMT fan said:

For me, all the time there is “live commentary” available for home games attendances will drop.

Can't agree: I shouldn't think it has made any difference at all - the crowds have been steadily dwindling since Christmas; not winning a home game for nearly four months and playing dismal football a lot of the time will have that effect.

[invictacolin]

Mar 10, 2024 9:43:49 GMT folkestoneclaret said:

Here I go again. The future of football at this level lies in 3G/4G. That was going to cost half a million when I tried to drive it 10-15 years ago. I guess now it will be closer to £700K - half for the groundwork, half for the surface. I wanted to raise appreciably more than that to reshape the whole ground including use of the tennis courts for a split-level facility, inside "arena" for community football with a stand and repositioned Stripes on top. Wider thinking would have shifted the structurally-compromised indoor bowls arena to a new build on a different site on the Polo Ground releasing the road frontage (and the abandoned outdoor bowls space) to the Council for redevelopment (as per Sydney De Haan's original ideas to develop a hotel and more recent thinking to use some of that space could be leased to Morrisons as a fuel and recharging station). And still some dedicated parking without which a "New Stripes" would be unviable. It was all pictured in the attachment.

It seemed a reasonable assumption then that despite his bitterness towards the football club, Roger de Haan would engage in helping bowls and tennis in further developing Three Hills, leaving football unhindered to develop the community interest for the No 1 sport that he should have been most concerned about in championing community facilities.

There is still a business case but it has to be based on sustainability. The representative side must be self sustaining and find its own level - pumping money in at director or sponsorship level is all very well but it isn't sustainable - see Billericay and dozens of other examples. The business case _must_ be founded on community football. So some form of Trust administration needs to be overarching to ring-fence finances of FIFC with the wider facility then commanding and controlling the overall budget.

Received wisdom 12 years ago was that FIFA guidelines would allow 50hrs a week of community football on a 3G stadium pitch; and obviously far more than that in a 24/7 indoor facility. Add potential revenue from hospitality and a function suite and you have a viable business proposition which includes the necessary provision for maintenance and a sinking fund for periodic surface renewal. The Council might not be able to provide capital but their Jeremy Chambers was well into this because it would realise additional revenue and the capital potential of the road frontage. And then there is the FA, lottery etc to engage in any viable project like this.

I already copied this pre-Christmas to the new Chairman and we'll see if anything develops.

UTS!

Lynn

[invictacolin]

I would love to see the ground redeveloped as above but until we own the ground, I believe it's impossible, timescales for the work means we would need to groundshare for at least a season and Hythe would be the nearest but not that good ground. Here's hoping for at least a new pitch for next season.

[ade]

Mar 10, 2024 7:49:25 GMT gerryhan said:

It's been difficult to replace the players who left after last season with players of similar quality.

That team had been together for years and had built team spirit which takes time to replace.

Hopefully we will start rebuilding properly next season.

We all have our opinions but I can assure you our listening figures for yesterday’s game v Kingstonian was our lowest ever 33 so you can’t blame us for the poor attendance we normally get around the 100 for away games so I think that tells everyone that we’re not to blame for poor attendance yesterday

[ade]

Mar 10, 2024 10:58:27 GMT stumpy said:

Mar 10, 2024 3:50:27 GMT steveblake said:

Quite possibly the actual worst game of football I have ever paid to watch.
In short (or long, or diagonal, or….. you get the gist) we can’t string 2 passes together, agreed the pitch didn’t help but…..
3 is good, keeper good, Callum ok, 9, 11, 15 & 10 alright.
Our lack of pace and astute covering full backs is a constant worry,
8 is industrious but doesn’t do much with the ball, 7 had a shocker but seen him play better, 6 who went off is too slow and easily turned, there’s not much quality and even less confidence throughout the team.
Sombre and subdued probably sums up the atmosphere….. we look a long way from a cohesive team and a side that doesn’t look like they could concede every time the opposition breaks forward.
Can only hope for better next Saturday, we will need to be.

You obviously didn't go to the Potters Bar game a couple of weeks ago

As for the rest, you've hit a lot of nails squarely on the head.

We are woefully short of pace just about everywhere and that, combined with our often poor defensive shape is a big reason for us being too easy to score against and also struggling to create a lot of chances.

As for the players. I like Sanogo (11), a proper footballer; ditto Fregene (15).
As for the wing/full backs, Byron (12) and Kedman (3) are both better going forward than defending, Sessegon (2) hasn't impressed me at all, and he doesn't get forward, which makes our attack lop-sided.
Centre backs: Callum and Goodman (6), especially Goodman, are both slow and too easy for quick forwards to beat.
Midfield, I like Allsopp (8), and his dead ball kicks are a big asset, he does drift in and out of games though; Rance (7) has been pretty dire and, considering the level he usually plays at, you wonder about his effort/application, because you would never suspect that he's at a good National League North club from what he's shown for us. Sanogo, as I've said, is very good.
Up front, we know what we get with Dave Smith - he takes chances, we just need to create more of them for him; Tom Derry, I'm not at all convinced; he's good in the air, but has no pace and does precious little ball at feet - when have we ever seen him take the ball past a defender? He is only worth a place in the team if we regularly put good crosses into the box, and we don't.

Go into next season with the same manager, the same squad and the same approach and I think we will endure another season of woe - and it has been woeful this season, the worst I have endured in the 25 years I've been watching Invicta.

We all have our opinions but I can assure you our listening figures for yesterday’s game v Kingstonian was our lowest ever 33 so you can’t blame us for the poor attendance we normally get around the 100 for away games so I think that tells everyone that we’re not to blame for poor attendance yesterday

[gerryhan]

The England rugby game live on itv was also a factor IMO.

Far more entertaining than our game too😃

[stumpy]

Mar 10, 2024 6:10:34 GMT Ads said:

Was surprised by the attendance, it looked more , will be interested to see the disallowed goal in the first half , if it’s on the highlights , it looked ok from where we were standing behind the goal

Well, I was standing next to you and I thought it was a foul

Be interesting to see the first goal again, the one that did stand. Someone who shall be nameless (because I don't know his name), said that it was a foul but the ref was in a poor position to see it; all happened a bit fast, but something made the keeper miss the ball, and it wasn't a funny bounce.

[Ads]

I’d had a few beers by then stumpy lol

[ohiwish]

It is such a shame that Lyn’s well argued case and vision for the future of FIFC was not supported by the board those 10 or 15 years ago. If it had been the club would be a million miles further on from the dwindling gates and rubbish football we are seeing at present. It is certainly worth re-stating the case to the current owners and if they have the best interests of the club at heart it is something they should seriously consider and act upon.

[steveblake]

I have been to all our home games and think yesterday topped potters bar, such a shame after a good display in the Cray debacle (the ref was incredible) and shoots of an emerging team over Christmas, seems a long while ago now.
The allowed goal, the ball was already over his head before any contact and the disallowed one, we needn’t have touched the keeper, he’d misjudged that one as well, the keeper is weak as a kitten tbh

[stumpy]

Mar 10, 2024 13:57:26 GMT ohiwish said:

It is certainly worth re-stating the case to the current owners and if they have the best interests of the club at heart it is something they should seriously consider and act upon.

We have to hope that they do. I'm sure they already have a plan and maybe it isn't a million miles away from Lynn's proposal, but who knows?

[philj]

I thought the game was poor too, particularly in the first half when we did not have a shot on target. A good response though after going behind,we showed an intensity for a while that we have rarely seen in AD'S reign. To be honest failure to get a result against a team that is struggling on and off the field would have been a disaster.
The wingback question could have been answered today. Second half looked like we played with a flat back four. Did we play better for this reason? May have helped, would like to see this formation next game.
The performances and results in the remaining games this season will allow a decent amount of time to judge the manager and his players. I really don't believe we are in a relegation battle so there should be no pressures in this respect. As a squad the players don't appear good enough to me to take the Club to the next level and most have been recruited by AD. The home performances have certainly contributed to the declining attendances and what the supporters are currently experiencing is not good enough.
Lyn,there have been many poor decisions taken by the club over the past decade. Let's hope the Director appointments made last summer are not more.

[folkestoneclaret]

Mar 10, 2024 11:22:58 GMT invictacolin said:

I would love to see the ground redeveloped as above but until we own the ground, I believe it's impossible, timescales for the work means we would need to groundshare for at least a season and Hythe would be the nearest but not that good ground. Here's hoping for at least a new pitch for next season.

I accept that a major redevelopment would mean groundsharing for a season. A price well worth paying. So how about striking up a deal with Dover....!

[bollockchops]

Mar 10, 2024 17:50:03 GMT folkestoneclaret said:

Mar 10, 2024 11:22:58 GMT invictacolin said:

I would love to see the ground redeveloped as above but until we own the ground, I believe it's impossible, timescales for the work means we would need to groundshare for at least a season and Hythe would be the nearest but not that good ground. Here's hoping for at least a new pitch for next season.

I accept that a major redevelopment would mean groundsharing for a season. A price well worth paying. So how about striking up a deal with Dover....!

Ashford have an artificial pitch but maybe too far away but knowing Dover would they be keen on it unless worth many ££££££££. We have had exceptional rain this year and the pitch has not been a perennial problem from my experience, although there were times when puddles could form in certain parts of the pitch mainly around the penalty area at the Morrisons End. Any corrections gratefully received.

[finbarr_in_z]

Mar 10, 2024 13:57:26 GMT ohiwish said:

It is such a shame that Lyn’s well argued case and vision for the future of FIFC was not supported by the board those 10 or 15 years ago. If it had been the club would be a million miles further on from the dwindling gates and rubbish football we are seeing at present. It is certainly worth re-stating the case to the current owners and if they have the best interests of the club at heart it is something they should seriously consider and act upon.

It was in their originally quoted business strategy. But stated as a few years away- possibly when finances have stabilised?

[stumpy]

You're right, the pitch hasn't been a major problem in recent seasons, until this one. It has been exceptionally wet since the turn of the year and lots of clubs have had problems with postponements. That said, the pitch (which looked lovely at the start of the season) has been poor since about October, because it doesn't get the TLC that it used to.

As for ground=sharing, please, not Ashford, which has to be the worst artficial pitch you have ever seen, and is a bugger to get to, being so far out in the sticks. Dover would be a lot better, although they would charge us the earth and probably wouldn't want us messing it up anyway; Hythe is obviously the best from a logistical point of view, but is an even worse pitch than ours and surely couldn't take twice as much football in a season, given that it barely copes with just one team playing there.

Apologies for having no constructive suggestions whatsoever (what's new? ), but a ground share is going to be painful wherever it is and, in the short term, a bit of a disaster from a revenue point of view.

And although our new owners like to give the impression that money is no object, they are not a charity; they didn't buy the Imperial because they wanted to run a hotel and I somehow doubt that they have invested in Invicta just to massage their egos.

[finbarr_in_z]

Mar 10, 2024 11:03:54 GMT stumpy said:

Mar 10, 2024 6:22:28 GMT fan said:

For me, all the time there is “live commentary” available for home games attendances will drop.

Can't agree: I shouldn't think it has made any difference at all - the crowds have been steadily dwindling since Christmas; not winning a home game for nearly four months and playing dismal football a lot of the time will have that effect.

Since Christmas. Bottomed out?

26 Dec Hastings United 880
30 Dec Hashtag United 1,138
6 Jan Wingate & Finchley 586
27 Jan Carshalton Athletic 697
30 Jan Hornchurch 560
6 Feb Cray Wanderers 484
27 Feb Potters Bar Town 482
9 Mar Kingstonian 462

[tigger]

Just down the road yesterday Hastings had 1645 at their game . Must be mainly down to the exciting football they play and not boring hoofball we have gone back to

[gripp]

Mar 10, 2024 20:28:08 GMT stumpy said:

You're right, the pitch hasn't been a major problem in recent seasons, until this one. It has been exceptionally wet since the turn of the year and lots of clubs have had problems with postponements. That said, the pitch (which looked lovely at the start of the season) has been poor since about October, because it doesn't get the TLC that it used to.

As for ground=sharing, please, not Ashford, which has to be the worst artficial pitch you have ever seen, and is a bugger to get to, being so far out in the sticks. Dover would be a lot better, although they would charge us the earth and probably wouldn't want us messing it up anyway; Hythe is obviously the best from a logistical point of view, but is an even worse pitch than ours and surely couldn't take twice as much football in a season, given that it barely copes with just one team playing there.

Apologies for having no constructive suggestions whatsoever (what's new? ), but a ground share is going to be painful wherever it is and, in the short term, a bit of a disaster from a revenue point of view.

And although our new owners like to give the impression that money is no object, they are not a charity; they didn't buy the Imperial because they wanted to run a hotel and I somehow doubt that they have invested in Invicta just to massage their egos.

Ashford's recently relaid artificial surface is really good. But what a daft place for a football ground.

[stumpy]

Mar 10, 2024 21:04:07 GMT gripp said:

Ashford's recently relaid artificial surface is really good. But what a daft place for a football ground.

Haven't been there yet this season, and happy to be corrected, but God forbid we play there

[andy3]

I think you know why Ashford ended up at Kingsnorth (After selling ground their new choice was refused planning so went nomadic ) and why their first plastic pitch was a bit crap ( dispute with installers led to them walking away and pitch finished by volunteers which lead to high court action etc) Since then they have recovered and have new playing surface.

Maidstone are a 3 or 4 G pitch success but that was due to Gallager building the stadium and giving a 5 year funding plan before selling . Maidstone have now earned £750 000 from their latest FA Cup run so are set up for a few more years !

[folkestoneclaret]

More big-picture thinking - maybe it would suit the players if we ground share at Ebbslesfeet? More seriously, Dover appeals because if we play decent football we will attract more fans who live there. If.

We should note well that apparently Hastings' success is founded on players brought through from youth level. Like we did before with Liam Friend, JV, Josh Burchell, the Everitts, Jimmy Dryden, David Bean, Andy Allon, Johan TH et al

Stumpy says I can't achieve old member status without adding more postings so I shall now contribute meaningless contributions to all threads :-)

[gazza41]

Mar 11, 2024 11:57:18 GMT folkestoneclaret said:

More big-picture thinking - maybe it would suit the players if we ground share at Ebbslesfeet? More seriously, Dover appeals because if we play decent football we will attract more fans who live there. If.

We should note well that apparently Hastings' success is founded on players brought through from youth level. Like we did before with Liam Friend, JV, Josh Burchell, the Everitts, Jimmy Dryden, David Bean, Andy Allon, Johan TH et al

Stumpy says I can't achieve old member status without adding more postings so I shall now contribute meaningless contributions to all threads :-)

Having watched the youth and academy teams a few times I’ve been impressed with some of the players. But I’m not sure whether they are on the first team radar . However feel they may miss out with the first team training in Ebbsfleet. Though Stanno works them hard and on a regular basis.

[stumpy]

Mar 11, 2024 11:57:18 GMT folkestoneclaret said:

Stumpy says I can't achieve old member status without adding more postings so I shall now contribute meaningless contributions to all threads :-)

Lynn, the next step up is "junior member" - you have 19 posts to go

Incidentally, the levels and the number of posts required are as follows (I had to work these out from the membership details that are available to me as a moderator):

1. New Member - you get this when you first post.
2. Junior Member - 100 posts.
3. Full Member - 500 posts.
4. Top Member - 1,000 posts.
5. Senior Member - see below.

We only have one "senior member", Finbarr. As I result I can't be at all sure what the threshold for this is: it's over 4,500 for sure. Whatever it is, since Finbarr has made over 18,000 posts (in 12 years), he must have passed it years ago.

[kentjambo]

Mar 11, 2024 11:57:18 GMT folkestoneclaret said:

More big-picture thinking - maybe it would suit the players if we ground share at Ebbslesfeet? More seriously, Dover appeals because if we play decent football we will attract more fans who live there. If.

We should note well that apparently Hastings' success is founded on players brought through from youth level. Like we did before with Liam Friend, JV, Josh Burchell, the Everitts, Jimmy Dryden, David Bean, Andy Allon, Johan TH et al

Stumpy says I can't achieve old member status without adding more postings so I shall now contribute meaningless contributions to all threads :-)

Nothing wrong with meaningless contributions. I've been doing it for years!

[finbarr_in_z]

Reaction